Adrijana Vujadin's Final Transcript
[00:00:00] Katherine Watier Ong: Welcome to the digital marketing victories podcast, a monthly show where we celebrate and learn from the changemakers in digital marketing. Great digital marketers understand that people are the most challenging part of doing their jobs. And this show focuses on the people part of digital marketing wins, what tactics or skills the guests use to align people with their marketing strategy.
I'm your host, Katherine Watier Ong, the owner of WO strategies, LLC. We focus on increasing organic discovery for enterprise sized, science focused clients. Thank you for joining me. Let's get into it and celebrate our victories. Today. We're joined by Adrijana Vujadin. She's a SEO manager at Affirma. And on the side, she coaches SEOs to build their confidence.
So this show is going to be perfect for you. If you want to learn more about imposter syndrome and whether or not you potentially have it and how you might be able to overcome it. And how you could other strategies you could use to build your SEO confidence. So, Adriana, welcome to the show.
[00:01:01] Adrijana Vujadin: Yeah, thank you so much for inviting me.
 
[00:01:03] Katherine Watier Ong: . All right, so I'm very curious about, you know, your background in general, because I love how SEO is find SEO because there's always different stories there. And how you got into digital marketing, but particularly, can you also tell our listeners how you got interested in imposter syndrome and the side coaching you're doing?
[00:01:18] Adrijana Vujadin: Yeah, definitely my story about entering the SEO and like BPC, it's kind of like boring because nothing too much. I was having some internships doing my master programs. And then I realized that I really like like BPC and SEO. Then I did some different courses, but actually what is interesting about entering like these kinds of like mindset things is actually that I was struggling a lot in my job with impostor syndrome, with confidence.
I'm not a native English speaker, so my English was terrible. And like, I was having struggles with that. And after two years, I will in like in the current SEO job, I realized that like, I can't do anymore. Like I was so exhausted, like tired of everything tired of like being sitting here and setting every day.
And I wanted to quit my job and just like go to Bosnia because I live in Dublin now because I, I tried everything. I was learning SEO. I was doing different courses. But I realized that every day I'm so nervous. I'm so stressed. I'm frustrated by all these like Google updates. Google things, whatever.
I don't know. Like everything was like kind of stressful for me. And in the first glance, I was thinking like, yeah, you know, like I'm entering the adult world. So probably that's the way how it is. And everybody is stressed. So probably I also should be stressed like there is no other way because you will not hear that actually someone is not stressed.
So I was thinking like, that's, that's normal. But honestly, after two years, like I, I couldn't do more like in that time, I didn't know, but I was in the burnout. I found that after afterwards, but I took two weeks of vacation just like to. Take some, like, mind thinking and, like, see, like, what I will do after, like, how I will approach my manager to say that I really can't handle, like, all these, like, SEO clients.
And then very weird situation happened on that vacation because I started to read a book, Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now. And I read that actually you can control your thoughts. And I was like, no, you can't because like when I'm frustrated, when I'm stressed, like it's the way how it is. I can't, I can't control my, my stressful situations.
And then I was talking with my best friend and he introduced me to some life coaches. Then I started reading about this. I did mindset coaching with my coach. And after a few months, I was completely like blown away about the power when you are working on your mindset. Because. Before that, I heard people are mentioning the right mindset, successful mindset, but I didn't know like what that means.
After I did some kind of like mindset and exercises, being familiar with myself, how to actually handle all these feelings, how to handle stressful situations, and in the end, how to reduce stressful situation. Then I was able to actually kind of like breathe and then like on my on my current job.
And basically the job is the same for almost 3 years, but now how I'm handling all these things is that. Even like I'm having like more responsibilities are actually, I can't say that are stressful. Definitely. I have some stressful situations, but with the mindset things that I did with these mindset coaches, like I'm able to now clearly see the situation and kind of like divide myself from the situation and then make better decisions.
And then you know, that. When your work is not impacting your health life, your mental health and the personal life. So that, that is moment when I saw how powerful all these things are. And then last year I decided like, all SEOs really need to know that because I really want to share all my knowledge that I have learned with these people.
So basically that I'm doing now. Besides. I'm full time SEO manager, but also I have my clients where we are working one on ones and I'm teaching them all these mindset things that I have learned. 
[00:05:45] Katherine Watier Ong: No, that's great. So your work background though, was it in house or just agency? It sounds like it was agency.
[00:05:51] Adrijana Vujadin: Just agency. Yeah. Yeah. All the time agency. 
[00:05:54] Katherine Watier Ong: And how many clients were you trying to handle? 
[00:05:57] Adrijana Vujadin: Currently 10, around 10, like nine times. 
[00:05:59] Katherine Watier Ong: That's a lot. I mean, this is a lot. Anyway, as I started my own consultancy, I realized that if I got over six, I'd forget one. That was my limit. I was like, I can't do more than six.
Because I want to make sure everybody's top of mind and, you know, I would sit there and do the list and be like, shoot, which one am I forgetting? 
[00:06:18] Adrijana Vujadin: Yeah. The interesting thing is actually before I had definitely like less clients between like five, six, and especially when I started, I was handling a few of them.
And the interesting part was that like back then it was harder for me to handle five, six clients than now I'm handling like 10 clients because. It that is like, kind of like blow mine, blow mining thing because I'm, that is always, I'm saying like, my clients, basically, I'm three years in the same company, less you, you know, when you are starting the, the, the, the new job, like you don't have like huge responsibilities.
You have like your own lead on the project. So basically you are not o you are not. So it's possible. EE even it seems that you are only responsible in time. Right. But that's the thing, like when you are having like. the, the, the proper mindset, then I think I would, I can handle like even more because they are not stressing me.
Like they are stressful situations, but like, they are not stressing me like my body. And like, that's the key. 
[00:07:22] Katherine Watier Ong: So I, when I was younger, I definitely had similar problems with getting overly stressed by work situations. And then I worked at the points of light foundation. And part of what I did was help.
People that are recovering from natural disasters, like a piece of it was folks that were helping with hurricane recovery and it just gave me a unique perspective. And so after that, I was like, okay, people are not dying. 
[00:07:49] Adrijana Vujadin: Yeah, we are not doctors. 
[00:07:51] Katherine Watier Ong: They all have their houses. They're not dying. They're not like high levels of water, you know, anyway, it gave me a little bit more perspective.
So your coaching clients, though, are they all I'm curious about whether or not the stress level is equal between. I mean, In house and agency, do you see more agency folks are in house folks. 
[00:08:07] Adrijana Vujadin: Yeah. I, I would say, hmm, maybe more agency, but I think the the stress is just different. Yeah. Even it seems that definitely like when people are handling like more clients, they are, they are having like different kinds of stress, but also in the house, the pressure from the in house and like it's just like the, the stress, but in different format.
Because people usually they tend, they don't have resources. They can do a lot of things on their website. They can't implement a lot of SEO strategies, but the stress of of pressure that they need to provide results is, is a huge, because you know, like when you are handling like different clients, clients are there for a few months, for a few years, they are leaving, you're getting new ones.
You are getting like new, new kind of like vibration, like new energy. But once, once you are in the house, you are always in the same energy. And sometimes it can be even like more kind of like tricker, trickier to go out because people are in the, in the same company for three to four years, the same energy and everything.
Once you are having a client, you are at least like you're breathing a little bit like in, in different ways. So. But we also know like, what's the consulting and when you're having agency work, like how, how much stress that is bringing. So I wouldn't say like, it's just like, it's different, but everybody's stressed.
[00:09:39] Katherine Watier Ong: Yeah. All right. So then I have another question, because this is my, my personal theory on things. So I was reading that More female executives experience imposter syndrome than men. So 75 percent of female executives have imposter syndrome. So why do you think more women are having trouble with imposter syndrome?
[00:09:59] Adrijana Vujadin: Yeah, I think that's, that is the most common question that I'm getting. And firstly people don't know that they are having imposter. So if you know that you are, you, you have impostor, then at least like you are on the level two, because a lot of feelings, kind of like I'm calling that symptoms of the impostor, like self doubts, feeling that you are not good enough, feeling that you need to over deliver, feeling that you need to overwork, feeling that you need to do like everything at once as soon as possible.
Those are the symptoms of the impostor syndrome. So, and people. they don't know that actually that is something that you can fix. You don't need to kind of like feel in that way. So I would say like when it comes to men and women, even I have like basically the same percentage of like people. And like a very interesting thing is actually in the first few months, only men were coming to me.
So I was like, Oh, interesting. So that was interesting. I think the females are just in that kind of like nature that firstly, they are even like more aware of the things because like they have kind of like a bigger impact and like highlights their feelings. So it's kind of like easier to detect that you are having imposter.
syndrome. On the other hand, like men, they have like different kind of like expectations of them. And they, they are, they are handling like in different ways. And all these things are coming from the early childhood, because you know, like parents are telling boys like, you don't need to cry. You can't cry.
 They are playing like different games. They are fighting with each other and just like with the nature of like, as it is like, they are kind of They are becoming more and more like I can't say like stronger, but they are just like exposed more. So they kind of, they, they overcoming in different ways.
And then like imposter syndrome for women, like that, that's kind of our core belief from young, from young childhood, from when our parents are comparing us to others, from boys to, and then it's just like growing and growing. 
[00:12:15] Katherine Watier Ong: Hmm. Yeah. That's systematic female suppression. So, so as so I'm, I'm the weird one that I had a unique upbringing and had confidence at an early age, partially genetic.
I think my dad, my mom had a lot of confidence, but then they also set me up to build the confidence and I'm always thinking about it. Cause I got two daughters and I want to make sure that they. Don't have this problem with confidence and mind you, it helps that they're homeschooled because they're not running into stuff in the outside world at an early age that kind of knocks their confidence back.
 But anyway, this is why I'm, I'm obsessed with it because I don't have the confidence problem. And I'm always trying to figure out what is that piece? Why don't I have the confidence problem and how do I. Make sure my girls also don't have that confidence problem. 
[00:13:02] Adrijana Vujadin: Yeah, usually the biggest impact has been made by our parents.
If your parents were encouraging you to test different things when you fail, they didn't like argue with you. They didn't kind of like being noisy. Like, why did you make mistake? Don't, if they didn't like. If they put you like encouraged, like in the, in the winds, like, yeah, you can do whatever you want.
Then definitely like there is not likely that you will get like so much kind of problems with confidence, but also a lot of other factors are impacting that. And yeah, as you know, like. You, you, you don't have a problem with confidence, but then you have other problems. So I'm always saying we, we are all screwed up.
Cause it's just like in the way, like in different ways. But like. 
[00:13:51] Katherine Watier Ong: Well, and I think you could be confident, but you go into the workplace and it depends on your workplace experience. Some of them could definitely cause you to question things. So and I don't, everybody's got a different workplace experience too.
Right. And so as a marketer, mine, I think this is average. I was in house for a long time and a lot of them was relatively short, especially since I worked at nonprofits. So nonprofits have a lot of turnover. So to marketing people, cause you're trying to make more money and you can, if you stay, you know, and so like I had these short moments, but they were all different.
So I had variety. It was kind of like an agency. Right. So I had all this variety. And so, yeah, I had a couple that were crappy. But I could look back to the one that was good, be like, they loved me. I rocked it. This place doesn't love me. I'm not rocking it. Maybe it's not me. Right? 
[00:14:39] Adrijana Vujadin: Because 95 percent will think that actually it's, it's that it's on them.
It's not the environment, it's on them. And then kind of like it's, it's, it's core problem because you're not doing anything about it because you're trying to even like prove yourself even more, more, you're working even more, but then like another, another side is just not providing you what you need.
Right? 
[00:15:02] Katherine Watier Ong: Yeah, I think the workplace culture part is huge. Like you could be a top performer, but if you end up in a place where you don't vibe with the workplace, you could fail and it's not you. It's the workplace, right? It could be your manager. It could be a lot of other things that were set. Like, for instance, I ended up in places that always needed a big pivot.
I was the disruptor person. And sometimes if you go in and they're willing to like pivot from old school, whatever the digital marketing and they're ready and you have a good marketing, you have a good manager that's supporting you. You could possibly make that happen, but it's a high failure kind of situation generally across the board.
And so I had a couple where I'd walk in and they want to do digital marketing and they say they want to, they don't actually really want to. And then you fail. And, you know, I had enough perspective to realize, mind you, this was after a little bit of time on this one failure one. So I got let go or I left about the same time.
Right. And then it was. I want to say it was months later. There were two of these instances where somebody who worked there or who had history of the organization knew I was upset about the fact that I lost the job and reached out to me and gave me the background so that I would feel better. So, like, in one instance, they're like, you realize that you were the sixth person with that title they hired.
Oh, okay. Then maybe it's not me. Right. And they were all short tenure. You're like, Oh, they weren't ready. It wasn't me. Anyway, I just think that sometimes top performers get worried about that kind of stuff. And it's just not you sometimes. 
[00:16:34] Adrijana Vujadin: Yeah. That's the thing with our brain pattern. Because like, even like people who are struggling with these, in the end of the day, when you When they sit with me and when we are like, we have some kind of like checklist and like when we are analyzing their situation, in the end of the day, they know that it's not about them.
Hmm. Interesting. But it's, it's just like, people don't take like few moments and analyze the situation. What is really happening? Because like, you know, we are, we are sometimes angry about something that is not real because like we make some assumptions, like we don't want to have like more information.
And like, we are angry about something that like, it's not even accurate in the like 100%. So basically, because like. Especially like SEO community, everyone is encouraging just like learning more networking, like reading testing, different things. Like people are not putting themselves like in the first play, like, let's, let's see what is really happening here.
They will likely read more or learn more to prove some that their work. It's like valuable then just like take one hour and like, see, is this what is happening in my current company's like toxic for me is, is about them. It's not about me. Like I'm valuable. I'm proving my work. I don't need to work like 10 hours or something like that because they just like.
And many as well as the last time when you sit with yourself, like with one hour journal or something like that. So people are just like with this crazy, like, I don't know what is happening in the world. Like people don't have time for themselves. Everyone else and every project, every client is more important than ourselves.
[00:18:17] Katherine Watier Ong: So I wonder we're going to be releasing an episode. I'm not actually sure whether it's before yours or after yours, but I'm going to be talking to somebody about mentoring. So stay tuned for that episode. But I wonder if the folks you've got that are helping that you're helping, do they have mentors?
So that was the, that was the key for my perspective. Sometimes with some of my issues along my career was interacting with my mentor and she gave me perspective. 
[00:18:42] Adrijana Vujadin: Yeah, usually they don't, usually they don't. So, also there is a difference between like technical mentor and mentor who is helping you with some kind of like your attitude, soft skills or something like that.
 Having a mentor is a great thing and that is something that I had like when I started SEO, the best thing ever, because you are willing to learn much more faster and also you are acquiring a lot of new perspectives from your mentor. But after sometimes when you are entering your kind of like own world, then definitely I'm always encouraging having a different kind of mentor that is not just like technical that have, that is helping you with like these soft skills.
[00:19:30] Katherine Watier Ong: Mine was more career oriented and focused towards soft skills. And she helped me as I. Move through my journey, different, I met her at one job and then as I moved different jobs, and then as I moved from working for someone else to working for myself, she actually gave me a bunch of tips. It was great. 
So, yeah, so let's talk a little bit about confidence because I also feel like it's a double bind when it comes to confidence in the workplace. So, and I've particularly experienced this. So, male leaders are usually. Rewarded by having confidence, even if it's misplaced, like, they could be totally incompetent.
But if they're confident, they get rewarded, but women are often not often have issues demonstrating work confidence in the workplace in a way that gets rewarded. Oftentimes, if you're too confident, it actually backfires on you. So what, what kind of experience have you seen with that? 
[00:20:29] Adrijana Vujadin: Yeah. So firstly, like females are just in general, like they are struggle to take new opportunities, new big projects because like they are thinking they are not good enough for even like new kind of like leaderships positions.
Also you know, like when, when there is a funny story, like when women are want to. apply for a job, they are just finding, like, why they can't enroll that job, and then they'll, like, they are not waiting, they will just, like, apply and, like, that's it. Like, of course, like, they are, like, differences, but, like, in, there is kind of, like, general sense around that.
So For me and my personal experience is I didn't experiencing like anything like this. So I was able to like progress in my leadership positions. Like once I was acquiring all these like soft skills and what what I'm making jokes like when I put, like, the, all this money in my head, like, to work on my mindset and I was able to progress with my career and everything. 
Women are just, like, struggling with, with taking, like, these kinds of, like, new, new opportunities. Definitely we need to add a lot of things that one female needs to handle besides the work, besides the, all these. Things not just like a project related. So I think kind of generationals and culture things are putting that like maybe more in advantage for males and like disadvantages for, for females.
[00:22:10] Katherine Watier Ong: Yeah. Do you coach your genders differently? Cause I do think that there needs to be a different approach for women to assert themselves in the workplace for it to not backfire. 
[00:22:22] Adrijana Vujadin: Yeah, I'm coaching them on, on, on the way they would like to get, and definitely like our base is working on their feelings. 
For example, fulfillment for male and female. It's not just like gender related because I have some male some male people who are want to feel just like fulfillment. They don't want to progress in their career. are not dreaming about some director's roles. It's just like, depending on the personality.
And what I'm seeing, like, that doesn't mean that male will need and will want to kind of progress in their career so aggressively. Or just like a female. Also, I think my target audience is very specific. So I'm just like attracting like all these people who are firstly looking for that kind of like success and fulfillment in the work.
Definitely like high achievers that are just looking for success without any kind of awareness about their feelings will not come to me because like it's just like energy that, we are kind of like, getting and like, what they are getting from me. So I, I think my, my, my probably metrics will be biased because it's a very specific audience that that is coming to work with me 
[00:23:42] Katherine Watier Ong: If you think, SEO are unique in that.
There's this individual contributor path, right? Where you keep getting to do the work, which is totally my bias. It's what I ended up doing. But you can also have a path where you, you started as doing the work but then you decide instead you'd rather manage, which means you're doing the work less and you're managing more.
And I totally had that opportunity. I remember talking to my boss about it and I was like, I don't want to do that. I like the work. That's why I'm doing it. You know? But, but yeah, there is that distinct, I think difference might be more strong than other. Well, I don't know. I suppose if you're doing website development, maybe it's the same thing.
Like people really jam and want to keep coding versus managing. 
[00:24:27] Adrijana Vujadin: Yeah. Yeah. My people are usually SEOs and like interesting thing is actually, they are, for example, in the first few years. definitely regarding different backgrounds, but they would like to just like do the work. And then after three to four, five years, then they would like to even like a little bit manage people.
And then after more years, they would like to even like enroll the world of independent SEO consultant. But every, every period has different struggles. 
[00:24:56] Katherine Watier Ong: Right. This is very true. It's very, very true. Especially when you decide to run off and do your own thing. There's totally other things you're going to be worried about.
[00:25:02] Adrijana Vujadin: Yeah. And even you are confident in the full time or doesn't matter, like agency or the in house, when you are moving for that, like independent SEO consultant role, then again, like a new way of the confidence is on your way when you are struggling with imposter syndrome, like how you will do that.
Like, will you able to find new clients run the business? Because like, once you're moving from the full time, you are kind of like, even like business owner and SEO consultant. 
[00:25:34] Katherine Watier Ong: So let's rewind just a second, talk a little bit more about this imposter syndrome. So, I was doing a little bit of reading, it seems like maybe there's five types of imposter syndrome.
Are you seeing sort of different variations of it or is it all sort of the same and do you approach it the same? 
[00:25:49] Adrijana Vujadin: Yeah. Yeah. The different also interesting thing about imposter syndrome is regarding the location. So, I'm always taking example, for example imposter syndrome from third world countries, for example, from Bosnia, then imposter syndrome from, I don't know, UK.
And then, like, Imposter syndrome from the States. So we all three of us, we will have like imposter syndrome, but the background that that imposter syndrome is coming is totally different. For example, third world countries, like we have facing the kind of like survival mode, just like getting the job, getting the money, getting like all these things.
For example, in the UK, it's a little bit like different imposter syndrome, just like they are getting feeling that they are not good enough because the market is like saturated so many kind of like SEOs and and then like states people, like they have different kind of like mindset first about the money.
And then also like they would like to start something new. They are more likely to start even their own SEO agency. But again, like imposter syndrome is different because. It's just like kind of like location, parents, family, like background, all these things. But the same thing is in Boston Syndrome, but the background is totally different.
So it's so interesting to see. 
[00:27:13] Katherine Watier Ong: So do you, I'm assuming you provide different processes to help folks from those different backgrounds? 
[00:27:19] Adrijana Vujadin: Actually, processes are the same. Because we are processing feelings, we are discovering why you are feeling that. So it doesn't matter like where you are coming from, the kind of like the process will be the same.
And that is kind of like finding your core value, why you are thinking. So also you can come from the States and you are, your background is, I don't know, something that you are feeling more for survival mode. So feelings I'm calling that like core beliefs, like why you are thinking in that way, is that what we are discovering.
Once we are discover we discover that core belief behind the imposter syndrome, then we are working on, on the checking that Core belief, because as I mentioned before we have some just kind of like believes that they are generic, like we are not questioning themselves. And then once we are discovering that core belief and analyzing, then we are starting in that kind of like process of moving people from feeling that they are not good enough to event a stage and getting the confidence that definitely like all these external factors.
as a work or something like that, that is stressing them is not that they will be impacted their impulse syndrome and the feeling that they are not good enough. So in the end, it's very simple, but just like people are not talking about these things. Coaches and life coaches are having like.
Especially in the Europe, more kind of like negative tendency. I know that in the States, definitely the space is a little bit different. But again, like here is kind of like culture that, you know, is just like work, work, work, work, work. Don't do like anything around your feelings, people. It's just the way, the way how it is. 
[00:29:16] Katherine Watier Ong: So how are you helping people overcome these deep hidden beliefs? Are you giving them a mantra and breathing and visualization and are you practicing it? I mean, cause if it's, if it's really deep. I just kind of wonder how you're helping that behavior. 
[00:29:35] Adrijana Vujadin: So with me, no affirmations, no mantras, no, no anything.
It's like kind of like therapy. And I'm calling that like a SEO therapy because it's, it's in the conversation. I'm, I'm I'm asking questions and then we are together discovering because like, you know, like I can't know something that's happened like in their past. So, but I will, I'm able and I have that skills that I have, I have learned that we.
are questioning all this situation. And then we are getting that usually what is coming to the surface is some situations in the past from their childhood, when they were disappointed, like when they, their parents did, for example, some, and like, it doesn't need to be like too hard, but like in that specific moment, it impact inner child and like small child that we were 20, 30 years ago, in the different that.
They will change the the way how they see the world. 
[00:30:37] Katherine Watier Ong: Hmm. I see. So do you, have you discovered that some folks with imposter syndrome, there's also a correlation between that and having the right mix of soft skills to be successful? 
[00:30:53] Adrijana Vujadin: It's, it's not so much correlated because we know a lot of successful people who are having a great soft skills, great leadership skills, but they are not on their mindset in terms of Discovering their feelings, why they are feeling like that or something like that.
So, definitely working on your mindset will help you with your soft skills because you will be aware more about yourself, why you are doing something in a specific way. Again, if you are struggling with doing something, reaching, asking for help, also you will be aware why. And we are changing that, but it doesn't need to be like connected.
So I would say like working on your mindset will help you. But again, like there is a difference, like working on your mindset and working on your imposter syndrome. Because part of the working on your mindset is imposter syndrome, but it will help you to easier gain soft skills because you are becoming you know why all these things that is happening to you, but doesn't mean that you will be like great leader or something like that if, if you just fix your imposter syndrome, it means more that you will feel.
Good about yourself, and then if you, if you decide that you really want to increase your leadership skills, perfect, but also it doesn't need to be connected so much. 
[00:32:29] Katherine Watier Ong: Yeah, I was totally thinking of this the other day because I'm reading never split the difference along with the women in tech SEO book club and particularly that he was talking about 1 of the key successes to negotiation is making sure you can control your emotions.
That's the part I was connecting. I was like, Hmm, I wonder if people are working on controlling our emotions in the heat of the moment. Right? Let's, that's, as I'm sort of discovering all the soft skills out there, I just put a pin in it. I was like, that's the soft skill too. Anyway, and I don't know if people are it's emotional, right?
I don't know. I was working on it. 
[00:33:03] Adrijana Vujadin: Yeah, because in the end it's emotional. It's just like the level of emotion you are and you want to be. Also, people are are struggling to work on their emotions because like, it can be very painful and like you need then overcome all these emotions. But definitely what I'm seeing, like, if you are, yeah.
If you know how to control your emotions, but in the way that you're not ignoring them, you know, like a lot of people are just like ignoring them emotions and just like continue to work, work, work, work, work. Maybe you will survive. Definitely you will survive, but kind of like with the consequence. I, I can't know, like, what kind of consequence you will handle, like just ignoring your emotions.
 What I can see controlling your emotions that you are discovering them and you are aware of them will actually help you to overcome some, for example, stressful situations, like the reduce the pressure on your work. And that is the, the, the power in, in, in that moment, not just like ignoring them and like moving forward.
[00:34:10] Katherine Watier Ong: Hmm. That makes tons of sense to me. So how do your clients know when they've successfully tackled their imposter syndrome? 
[00:34:19] Adrijana Vujadin: It's in the, it's in the feeling. And I would say like, there is no day when you are saying, yeah, I overcome imposter syndrome because like all these clients that are working on their imposter syndrome and on their mindset, they are also very successful and they are kind of like they are.
 Every month, every week, like they are kind of a new level. So with a new level, you are getting like new kind of like situations. So it's just like overcoming new situations and growing because like, if you are just not doing anything about your imposter syndrome or not doing anything about your mindset, you are kind of in, in this one, in the one stage.
So there is you can. Reach your kind of like confidence that when you're feeling good enough, but you will not stop. You will not stop because once you are on that level, you want next level. So we are always working on your growing, 
[00:35:20] Katherine Watier Ong: Particularly in our industry. I'm always like, I'll. Read something by Mike King and be like, Oh my Lord, I'm, I have so much more stuff to do.
[00:35:28] Adrijana Vujadin: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Because with every learning, like we are discovering some new things that we don't know. Yeah. But that, I would say like, that is a difference when you know that you. You don't know something and you want to know, but not from the feeling that you are not good enough because you want to feel that you are curious and that you want to learn more.
And then when you feel this difference, then you can say let, you kind of like practice your brain, you train your brain to actually to switch the focus from one thing to another thing and move forward. And you are feeling that, like, after any session, like my clients are feeling different. They are aware, like we are constantly learning about these brain patterns that are happening in our head.
And like, it's, it's, it's, it's so interesting to say, but actually the results are visible in your body. You're feeling different. 
[00:36:27] Katherine Watier Ong: So let's just pause for a second and dig into that a little bit more since the, the bloody industry changes so quickly and especially this last fall. It feels. Overwhelming and I remember I was watching, I don't know, it was an SMX next, maybe presentation or something and the presenter was like, they, they'd run a survey and like, listen, all of us are feeling that way.
Right? Which obviously gives you some perspective. You're like, okay, my friends in the industry feel like I do. It's a common thing. Nobody feels like we're on top of it. Okay. That helps a little. But in general, how do you help your SEO folks. Thanks. Be okay with the pace and that there's always new stuff and what do you coach them to say if a client asks them about something that's brand new?
[00:37:09] Adrijana Vujadin: Yeah, overwhelming can come like from different perspectives. People just like trying context switching, like doing different things on your day, putting like so many. different activities. So yeah, overwhelming is not something that only people with imposter syndrome are experiencing. So, 
[00:37:30] Katherine Watier Ong: Yeah. So what do ;you do with confidence in particular?
So how do you build somebody's confidence? I have a few ideas I've attempted to try with mentees. But do you have any tips? 
[00:37:43] Adrijana Vujadin: Yeah, so basically confidence is a consequence of all these like mindset things that we are working. You know, like people would like to feel confidence, but besides that they will more likely to, to feel.
good about themselves. So once you are feeling good about yourself, you don't have like self doubts, you don't have kind of like misconceptions for the decisions, you know your core values, you know your core beliefs, you're familiar with like what you want, how you want to achieve it, then even like when you are communicating, you are very clear about these things.
Once you are feeling good about yourself, you will say know two extra things about anything like that. And then like the, the result is confidence, but there are so many different factors that you need to build to get and feel real confident. I wouldn't say like you know, like I will not say like, yeah, I'm confident.
I would say like, yeah, I'm, I'm feeling good. About myself, I'm feeling good enough, so, 
[00:38:56] Katherine Watier Ong: Oh, that's, that's a perfect answer. I think I was trying to shortcut it with my mentee. So it's good to hear that it's involves a lot of emotional work before you end up getting to that end state. So just a final questions I ask everybody has, is there something, so as marketers, we're constantly thinking about your audience and have you recently had an aha moment about your audience that surprised you? 
[00:39:22] Adrijana Vujadin: I did, I can't, I can't think about it because like my target audience, I would say like, it's, it's very specific as your professionals, like I am with a. Between like three to 10 years of experience in the end, we are all the same. We are all the same. We are just having different companies, different projects, different clients, different managers, but our problems are the same.
So I didn't have like any aha moments recently. I think. Yeah. 
[00:39:59] Katherine Watier Ong: And do you just support SEOs? Cause I know you have a pay per click background too. 
[00:40:03] Adrijana Vujadin: Yeah. For now, just like SEOs. I'm feeling that since I'm SEO manager myself, I'm feeling that just like. I can help the most SEOs and any people from the another background are welcomed.
It's just like the way how I maybe targeted myself for SEOs, but like all people who are watching my videos, they are saying like, yeah, that is like align with any other industries. So it is, it's just the way how I started. I wanted to start like small help my people, maybe in the, in the future, I will help like, even like PPC digital market marketers, because the process, the processes are the same and like, so, 
[00:40:46] Katherine Watier Ong: okay.
 And what, when, or resource do you have to share with our audience? Our listeners. Mm. 
[00:40:52] Adrijana Vujadin: Resources regarding what? I have tons of resources. 
[00:40:55] Katherine Watier Ong: Oh, imposter syndrome and confidence and mindset. All that. 
[00:40:59] Adrijana Vujadin: Okay. Yeah. I think imposter syndrome, like where I could where I learned the, the, the, like most of the processes for imposter syndrome is Byron Katie's work.
Byron Katie, she, she wrote tons of the books, but her approach about the work, I took it like, so for imposter syndrome. So people who really want to work on it please. watch her tons of the videos. Also on my YouTube channels, you have like fixed imposter syndrome free training. And I'm always saying like, people don't go broad.
Just like take one approach and, and try and go with it because like, you're, you're just like taking a small steps from there, there, there, then like, you will be confused. So for imposter syndrome, Byron Katie is perfect. 
[00:41:51] Katherine Watier Ong: Great. Cool. And how can people learn more about you? 
[00:41:55] Adrijana Vujadin: Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn every day.
Also, I have my YouTube channel. I just started last year. So I think these two platforms are the best. So for people who want to work with me or see how one coaching session looks like, they can find me on LinkedIn and send me a message. 
[00:42:15] Katherine Watier Ong: Great, and we'll have link to her LinkedIn and YouTube channel in the show notes.
 It was great having you on the show. Thank you so much for sharing your background and your experience. 
[00:42:24] Adrijana Vujadin: Thank you so much for reminding me. 
[00:42:27] Katherine Watier Ong: Thanks so much for listening. To find out more about the podcast and what we're up to, go to digital marketing victories.com. And if you like what you heard, subscribe to us on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts.
Rate us, comment and share the podcast, please. I'm always looking for new ideas, topics, and guest. Email us at digital marketing victories at gmail. com or DM us on Twitter at DM victories. Thanks for listening.